Thread: What Is Islam ?
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Old 24th August 2008, 01:03
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interesting points you bring up, and although Moses (a.s) may not have as many titles as Isa (a.s), Moses is none the less the most mentioned prophet in the Quran by name - 136 times


I do have some problems though with how you say Jesus is shown as more exalted than Muhammad (even though Jesus is highly praised and respected in the Quran - His status is not higher than Muhammads - you are forgetting Muhammad is The Chosen One- Al Mustafa , and Beloved of Allah - Habibullah.

In this post about Jesus - you are soley using Quranic Ayat - to claim Jesus's alleged higher status - yet you say the following in your comparison:

"Jesus ---- Is A God / No Earthly Father Mentioned / Did Not Marry / Died For Everyone's Sins / His Spirit Came Down Directly From God / Started His Mission At Birth / He Had No Children / Was A Messiah / Did Not Receive Book Himself / Did Not Die A Natural Death / Was Taken Up By Allah . "

Some of this information is TRUE, yet many things you have mentioned are not only unislamic but also fundamentally against what the QURAN says regarding Jesus.....

You say Jesus:

1) "Is a God" - This not only contradicts the Quran but the most fundamental aspect of islam - Tawheed - Oneness of God... You are going against the Quran when it states:

"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:75).

Again it says "They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. (5:72)

2) Had "No earthly father" This is correct - and the Quran reaffirms the virgin birth - yet this is by no means any justification for divinity of Jesus. As the Qurans reminds us of another miraculous creation......

"Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. (3:59)."

The Quran is pointing out that where Jesus was created without a father - Adam was created without Mother OR Father.... Eve was created from a RIB! so ask yourself which is an even greater miracle? This is the wisdom behind the comparison here.

3) "Died for everyones' sins" - This is not mentioned ANYWHERE in the very book you are quoting from. If anything this verse will illustrate Jesus's mission and standing before God:

"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).

His mission and message the same as all prophets before him and as Muhammad's after him- Your Lord is One - worship Him Alone.

4) "Did not receive Book himself" Again you are contradicting what the Quran is saying - because the Injeel is the Book given unto Jesus:

"We sent other apostles, and after those Isa the son of Mariam. We gave him the Gospel and put compassion and mercy in the hearts of his followers." (57:27)

5) "Did not die a natural death" & "Was taken up by Allah" - According to Islam - Jesus STILL has not died as you have rightfully said has been raised by Allah - as such the Maseeh will return at a later time (Once the False Messiah -Anti-Christ/Dajjal appears) and will then live for an appointed time, marry and die a natural death and be buried in Madinah - according to Ahadeeth.

You also say "And For Further Proof, In Your Own Koran 2 ; 253 , It Clearly States That Jesus Is Exalted Over Other Prophets."

The Verse you are referring to says:

"These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit." (2:253)

This verse does not single Jesus out over all prophets it mentions that SOME prophets have been blessed more than others - it indirectly refers for example to God speaking with Moses, and some prophets being raised to higher ranks "AND" then Jesus is mentioned as being supported with miracles and the Holy Spirit - Gabriel.

Finally, some verses for you to reflect upon:

"Lo Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation." [33:56].

Muhammad is the Final Messenger sent for ALL Manking - even Jesus himself said he was only sent to guide the lost sheep of Israel - which compliments the Quranic view that Jesus was sent to Bani Israel - the last israelite prophet.

"Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets." (33:40)

"And surely you [O Muhammad] are indeed of a magnificent character." (68:4)


Also Muhammad himself said in hadeeth:

The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) has said: Do not over praise me as the Christians over-praised the son of Mary. I am His slave so say: 'Allah's slave and messenger' [Al-Bukhaari and Muslim]

Also the name Muhammad means Praiseworthy.



You also say:

"So You Tell Me, Mr. Muhammadan , Shi-ite , Ahmadiyite, Wahbai , Or Any Other Sect Of Moslems Which You Name Yourselves, According To Your Belief, Is Jesus The God Of The Koran? The Reason Why I Ask This Question Is Because Out Of All The Thousands Of Religion All Over The Planet Earth , Muslims Seem Set On Trying To Defeat The Power Of Christianity And Its Ability To Convert People World Wide."

Firstly, the name Muhammadan as you very well know is a derogatory term - which was first used by Crusaders and later was used by the West and Orientalists even up till the 20th century. It is unacceptable that you use such a terminology here - we do NOT worship Muhammad and our religion is by no means named after Muhammad in anyway. The name given to us by God is MUSLIM - please refer to us as such.

And a simple answer to your question is No, we do not believe Jesus is God or His son for that matter. And Islam is not 'trying' to defeat the alleged power of Christianity and its converting ability - just check the Guiness Book of World Records and you will already see Islam is the worlds "fastest growing religion".

"The Koran Seems To Center Around Conflicts With Pagan Tribes Of Arabia , But Really Never Addresses Their Religious Beliefs, Or The Characters Of Their Religion."

Hmm if you REALLY have read the Quran and you are claiming the Quran 'centers' around conflicts with the Quraysh then you have completely misundersood - or perhaps not even read the Quran - maybe just skim-read. Because in fact the PRIMARY source for Islamic Theology is the Quran THEN the Ahadeeth.

Furthermore, unlike the Bible, the Quran mentions Islam by Name as well as the adherants - Muslims. Jesus never uttered a thing about being 'Christian' or there being a 'Christianity' - likewise there is no 'Judaism' or 'Jewish' people in the Torah - there are the Ancient Hebrews and tribes of Israel (Jacob).

Going back to belief- unlike the Bible, the Quran SPECIFICIALLY, explicitley mentions our purpose of being here - one of the most quoted Quranic verses:

"And I (Allâh) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone)." (51:56)

There are so many examples but not enough time to go through all of the verses that deal with Islamic belief and character of Islam - but for time's sake I will try and list a few more.

"if the ocean became ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would be finished before the words of my Lord came to an end" (18:109); "And if all the trees that are in the earth were pens, and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans swelling it therefore, the words of Allah would not be exhausted. Surely, Allah is Mighty, Wise" (31 :27).

"Say, “He is God, the One. God, to Whom the creatures turn for their needs. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none like Him.” (112:1-4)

"If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love and forgive you your sins." ( 3:31)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things" (2:256)

"The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account" (3:19)

"And That They Are Nothing More Than A Modern Day Sect Of Christians And Should Prepare Themselves For The Coming Of The Messiah ."

Erm, Muslims ALREADY are awaiting and believe in the second coming of Al Maseeh.... and technically if you mean we are 'christian' in that we are followers of the prophet JESUS - as the ORIGINAL followers of Jesus did [The Nazarenes, not the 'christians'] then yes we are a 'true' sect of the followers of the Prophet Jesus.... if when you say Christian you mean one who believes in the Trinity and worships Jesus as God and/or Son of God. Then no we are not.

Last edited by Ronin : 24th August 2008 at 03:05.
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