In one of his first exit interviews, President Bush appeared on ABC Nightly News Monday. Host Charles Gibson asked the president about the troubled economy.

President Bush: “I’m sorry it’s happening, of course. Obviously I don’t like the idea of people losing jobs, or being worried about their 401Ks. On the other hand, the American people got to know that we will safeguard the system. I mean, we’re in. And if we need to be in more, we will.”

During the same interview President Bush discussed the invasion of Iraq.

Charles Gibson: “What were you most unprepared for?”

President Bush: “Well, I think I was unprepared for war. In other words, I didn’t campaign and say, ‘Please vote for me, I’ll be able to handle an attack.’ In other words, I didn’t anticipate war. Presidents—one of the things about the modern presidency is that the unexpected will happen.”

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ABC News is reporting U.S. intelligence agencies warned their Indian counterparts in mid-October of a potential attack from the sea against hotels and business centers in Mumbai. A second government source said specific locations, including the Taj Mahal hotel, were listed in the U.S. warning. Meanwhile India has called on Pakistan to extradite 20 fugitives. India believes some of the 20 had links to other attacks in India.


Democracy Now .org

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In Israel and the Occupied Territories, funerals were held Wednesday for two Palestinian teenagers killed in the latest Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip. The youths, aged fifteen and seventeen, died when Israeli bombs struck the town of Rafah. Another two people were wounded.

Libya Accuses Israel of “Piracy” for Gaza Ship Blockade
Meanwhile, at the UN, Libya accused the Israeli government of “piracy” for blocking a Libyan ship from delivering humanitarian aid to Gaza. The Libyan sailing marked the first attempt by a foreign government to defy Israel’s blockade. The Palestinian observer to the United Nations, Riyad Mansour, called on Israel to end its siege.

Riyad Mansour: “It is therefore imperative that Israel be compelled, first and foremost, immediately and completely, to lift its siege of the Gaza Strip to allow for movement of persons and goods to ease the isolation and humanitarian suffering of the Palestinian civilian population.”


Israeli Reporter Amira Hass Forced Out of Gaza by Hamas, Detained by Israeli Police For Entering Gaza Without Permit
Israel has imposed a tightened blockade over its million and a half residents for nearly a month. Last month, award-winning Israeli journalist Amira Hass defied the blockade and entered Gaza on a boat with international peace activists. But on Sunday, Hamas officials told Hass they could no longer guarantee her security and forced her to leave. Hass was briefly detained by Israeli security officials upon re-entering Israel Monday because she did not have a permit for Gaza. Amira Hass joins us on the phone from Ramallah


Guest:

Amira Hass, correspondent for the Israeli newspaper Haaretz and one of Israel’s leading journalists. She has spent much of the last decade living in Palestinian communities of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Hamas recently told her to leave Gaza. She joins us on the phone from Ramallah.


AMY GOODMAN: We turn now to the Middle East, to the Gaza strip where Israel has imposed a tightened blockade over its million and a half residents for nearly a month. The Israeli navy blocked a Libyan ship carrying 3,000 tons of food and medical aid from entering Gaza on Monday. It was the first attempt by a foreign government to break the siege of Gaza. Last month award-winning Israeli journalist Amira Hass defied the blockade and entered Gaza on a boat with international peace activists. She reported for Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz from Gaza while being accompanied by Hamas. But on Sunday Hamas officials told Amira Hass they would no longer guarantee her security and asked her to leave. Hass was briefly detained by Israeli security officials upon re-entering Israel Monday because she did not have a permit for Gaza. The Israeli army officially barred its journalists from entering Gaza after the 2006 kidnapping of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. Amira Hass is a correspondent for Israel’s Ha’aretz. She’s the author of “Drinking the Sea at Gaza: Days and Nights in a Land Under Siege” .She joins me now on the telephone from Ramallah, the West Bank, where she lives. Welcome to Democracy Now!

AMIRA HASS: Hi Amy.

AMY GOODMAN: Tell us what happened to you in Gaza. Why were you kicked out by Hamas.

AMIRA HASS: I don’t know, they just got tired of me, I guess. They insisted from the start to follow me, to escort me 24 hours a day, which of course, did not make my work very easy, but I took it ok. They said there the wanted to avoid any slightest chance that someone might hurt you. All of the sudden Sunday, they told me circumstances has changed—all of the seven on Sunday, the circumstances have changed, there is more tension in the region. And there is also some information that my life might be in danger. As a principle, I do not take such threats or what any security apparatus tell me, whether it is Israeli, whether it is Arafat or Hamas. But they left no option, they were very strict about it. I have some friends in Hamas they tried very hard to put sense into some people, but it was in vain. The only thing we managed was to postpone the decision by- less than one day so I could see friends of mine because the main sense that I have is that Gaza is going to be isolated for so many years and that people won’t be able to leave anywhere, not to the West Bank, not abroad, not for a vacation, for so many years. Who knows when I would see friends again? This was also – apart from the frustration, the professional frustration, that I felt. You know, I had planned to stay three months now in Gaza, there was a much more to do.

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AMY GOODMAN: Amira Hass, describe life in Gaza right now. It is very hard to get information out. In the last few weeks, executives from Associated Press, New York Times, Reuters, CNN, BBC and other news organizations sent a letter to the Israeli Prime Minister Olmert, saying, well criticizing the government’s decision to bar journalists from entering Gaza with Israel virtually sealing it off. Its very hard to get a picture of what is going on inside.

AMIRA HASS: It is even very hard to describe it in 10 minutes or 30 minutes. It is complete isolation, I feel its like a black hole., Everybody, this isolation, this blockade reduces people’s lives in to basic concern. Will there be electricity? Will there be water? Will we find candles in the shop? Is there gas for cooking? People are still offended by the very needs to be preoccupied all the time by those needs. At the same time, there is a lot as always, there is the spirit of defiance that you find among Gazans. And the ability to make humor. So this has has not been lost at all. I actually was upset with some of the reports that only focused on how Palestinians are miserable, Gazans are miserable, completely overlooked the ability to maneuver, and to, the creative abilities of Gazans. So you have, then you have the blockade imposed on Gaza on the part of the Palestinian Authority. They still hope to make a Hamas government collapse by obstructing the regular work of main ministries in Gaza: Education and Health. This is very, this is really nasty. It is a chance for Hamas to employ its own people, but its own people especially in Health, are very much less experienced. There has always been a problem with the health system, there has always been but it is deteriorating very fast.

The same is true of the education system it is really heartbreaking to see how it is not only the blockade and the siege, which as you remember started in 1991 and not just four months ago, it is an ongoing process from Israeli policy. But the Ramallah authorities and Palestinian authorities add to it, add to it pressure. This is very, people are- it doesn’t weaken Hamas, the contrary, people say, ok, so Hamas is one of us. We are all targeted by Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

And the third point is that Hamas is not unhappy with the isolation right now because it enables it to establish its own regime in this small part of the world. It is a kind of independence from Israeli—a strange as it may sound—far away from Israeli control. There are attacks, there are military attacks, but inside, it is much more free from Israeli interference than the West Bank. So they can experiment their Islamic rule there, even though they say all the time this is not their goal. In practice, this is what is happening. So what is happening is that you have this miserable enclave with people who are imprisoned in it for so long and who are yearning for the world to open for them. For studies, for [unintelligible], for books, you know, it is difficult to send books to Gaza. It is almost impossible. Olmert has placed some few thousands of books at Erez waiting to bring into one of its libraries. And it cannot because of Israeli restrictions. So, but somehow, the three parties, the three powers concerned, unequal as they are, participate in this growing isolation of Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask you, Amira Hass, let me ask you, in the protests of the news organizations to being banned from Gaza, an Israeli defense ministry spokesperson said that there were displeased with international media coverage because it “inflated Palestinian suffering and did not make clear that Israel’s measures are in response to Palestinian violence”.

AMIRA HASS: Yes. Should I comment?

AMY GOODMAN: Yes.

AMIRA HASS: Israeli officials have the talent always to reverse everything. I mean, it is to occupation that starts. That is the first thing. Israeli policies of occupation, which are the beginning. And then everything is the response, the Palestinian response. Whether it is clever or not is a different question. It is really amazing—I mean, this has ever been given as a reason to prevent journalists from entering Gaza. I mean, it seems there really passing their own borders or red lines. They used to say there was a danger to your life, but now they’re even there to intervene in the content of your report. And besides, it is not true. I think the world knows much more about the Israeli city which suffers from attacks of Palestinian rockets then they know the names like Sderot, Beni Suhayla, Abbasan al Sagheera, where people, localities in Gaza which have almost daily incursions’. So, these names are not known in the world. So its not even true what he claims.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask about the statement of the lame-duck Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, recently said to the surprise of many that he felt that Israel should withdraw from the territories. I wanted to get to you his exact quote. He said that “We are gravely concerned about the prolonged and unprecedented denial of access in the Gaza for the international media." he also talked about—

AMIRA HASS: Olmert?

AMY GOODMAN: He said, that Israel should withdraw from nearly all territory captured in the 1967 Middle East war in return for peace with the Palestinians and Syria, I am saying what no previous Israeli leader has ever said: we should withdraw from almost all of the territories, including in East Jerusalem and in the Golan Heights. Well he still is Prime Minister.

AMIRA HASS: Well, I mean, this is ridiculous- if you are why don’t you do it, now? Where were you five months ago, or a year ago. It’s probably not new thinking. So you could say great, he’s been influenced a bit and got sense. It is useless. I do not know what made him say that, but it is totally useless if you don’t—if it is not your policy, if its only words.

AMY GOODMAN: Why can’t he? Even as a lame-duck Prime Minister, why can’t he enforce it, why can’t he move in that direction since he’s already said this?

AMIRA HASS: He created this monster of the settlements, settlers who oppose any such idea and they created this tradition that you do not touch the settlers when the object to any legal action against them. Of course he could not even start it in the few months the he has or the one month he has til he has to leave. This is not realistic right now. The question is, where did he start to change his mind? Where did he think that return to 67 is the only solution. So does he want to gain some popularity, since he has lost so much because of all the scandals, popularity among certain echelons—I do not know. It is a riddle. But of course he cannot do it, not only that because right now Israeli society is profiting directly from the occupation, more than ever before.

This one of the achievements of the Oslo agreements, and the Oslo process, that the settlements could extend direct economical company—economical companies that are directly connected to the settlements and to the occupied territories, has grown. More Israelis see the settlements as an natural phenomenon. And also, in, in the popular mind, Palestinians have a state. It does not matter it has no sovereignty, no land or water or borders. But in the mind of the Israelis, Palestinians have the state because they’re in control of the administrative affairs. So..

AMY GOODMAN: Amira Hass—

AMIRA HASS: If he wanted now, he could not. The general sentiment in Israel is very since the whole occupation is something normal.

AMY GOODMAN: We have to leave it there. I want to thank you for being with us. Are you going to court on Thursday, in an Israeli court?

AMIRA HASS: Its only procedural, because I was released on bail. I was arrested and Ha’aretz worked hard so I would not be sent to jail for one night. So now, we have to discuss the terms of my release. And then they say they might charge me with breaking the military commanders order.

AMY GOODMAN: We will keep people posted. Amira Hass, correspondent for the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, she’s talking to us from Ramallah, from her home in the West Bank. She was kicked out of Gaza. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. The quote before, “We’re gravely concerned about the prolonged and unprecedented denial of access to the Gaza strip for the international media” was from the news executives complaining to the Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. This is Democracy Now! back in a minute..



Democracy Now .org

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Israel’s tightened blockade of a million and a half Palestinians in the Gaza Strip is now entering its third week. On Monday, the Israeli navy seized fifteen Palestinian fishermen and three international activists off the coast of Gaza. The fishermen were released, but the activists remain in an Israeli jail. We speak to Darlene Wallach from inside the Masiyahu Prison near Tel Aviv.

AMY GOODMAN: Israel’s tightened blockade of a million and a half Palestinians in the Gaza Strip is now entering its third week. Tel Aviv rebuffed calls Thursday from United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to reopen the crossings into Gaza for humanitarian aid. Israeli government officials cited continuing Palestinian rocket fire as the reason for closing the crossings.


Residents of Gaza are running out of essentials, like food, medicines and fuel, as a result of the almost continuous blockade imposed November 4th.


Meanwhile, the fifteen Palestinian fishermen seized by the Israeli navy off the coast of Gaza were released on Wednesday. The three international volunteers accompanying the fishermen, however, remain in a prison near Tel Aviv.


American Darlene Wallach, Italian Vittorio Arrigoni, and Scottish Andrew Muncie had arrived by boat into Gaza in late August as part of the first Free Gaza delegation. They remained in Gaza working with the International Solidarity Movement alongside Palestinian fishermen, documenting any harassment by the Israeli navy.


The three internationals are reportedly beginning a hunger strike today to protest their detention. They are also demanding the Israeli navy release the Palestinian fishing boats they confiscated this week.


US citizen in detention, Darlene Wallach, joins me now from a phone inside the prison near Tel Aviv. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Darlene.


DARLENE WALLACH: Thank you very much. Thanks for calling me.


AMY GOODMAN: Where exactly are you being held?


DARLENE WALLACH: I’m in a—it’s in a men’s prison, but inside the men’s prison there’s a compound for women. And the compound is for people who are illegally in Israel because their visa, work visas ran out. So my question is, why am I here? I was kidnapped at gunpoint by the fourth largest military in the world, and I was on a Palestinian fishing boat in Palestinian fishing waters. So it doesn’t make any sense why I’m here, why I’m being held.


AMY GOODMAN: Explain exactly what you were doing and the scene when you were arrested.


DARLENE WALLACH: I was on a Palestinian fishing boat that I’ve been on numerous times. And we accompany the Palestinian fishing boats in their waters, where they have the international right to fish, so that the Israeli navy won’t shoot and kill or arrest the Palestinian fishermen.


So what made it different this time is, it seemed to me they were specifically targeting the internationals, because they released the Palestinian fishermen to their homes. And they also confiscated the fishing boats. And the way that they arrested us was very different than how they normally arrest the fishermen. So, normally, they force the fishermen to strip to their underwear, jump in the water and swim to the Israeli navy boats. And this time they brought Zodiac boats, and the frogmen boarded each Palestinian fishing boat. And the first person taken was Andrew. I saw him being taken. And then they took the fishermen off of that boat. Then they came to the boat I was on and took me off the boat.


And so, I don’t know—I didn’t know what happened to the fishermen. I was very concerned about their safety and what Israel might do to them. And I’m very, very concerned about the fishing boats, because in the past what Israel does is they sink the boats or they damage the boats, like taking the engines off, or steal all the equipment. So I’m very concerned about what’s going to happen to the fishing boats. That’s their livelihood. I mean, they said fifteen fishermen. Well, there’s more than just those fifteen that work on each boat. So the livelihood of all those people now has been destroyed. That’s how many families now? And the families tend to be large. How many families now have no income, and there’s no employment, because they have no fishing boats to go out on? It’s really just disgusting, despicable, deplorable. And I want the world to speak out and tell Israel to stop.


AMY GOODMAN: Now, those fifteen fishermen have been released. Why haven’t you been released?


DARLENE WALLACH: I guess the plans are to deport us. And my understanding is, when they deport you, they deport you to where you came from. Since I came from Gaza, I want to be released to Gaza. It sounds like they have no plans on doing that. I don’t know why they’re holding me. It seems like they violated international law in many different ways. And so, I don’t know. I can’t answer that. But then, if you try to talk to Israel, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to get the truth from them.


AMY GOODMAN: How did you get into Gaza, Darlene Wallach?


DARLENE WALLACH: How did I get to Gaza?


AMY GOODMAN: Yes.


DARLENE WALLACH: I was on the Liberty, one of the two boats that—one of the first two boats that went to Gaza from Cyprus. And I actually was with the Liberty on the way to Cyprus. And so, it was a wonderful trip. It was a wonderful boat. It was an amazing, amazing experience.


The welcome that we got in Gaza, it was just overwhelming. My emotions come up, because it was thousands of people just so happy to see, at least token-wise, symbolically, the siege broken. It was the first time in forty-one years that, from Cyprus, a stamp on a piece of paper said a boat was leaving Cyprus for Gaza. And it was like an amazing trip. And it’s been amazing to be in Gaza to work in solidarity with the Palestinians. They’re amazing, kind, warm, loving people. And I—for me, just being out on the fishing boats and the stress, I don’t understand how they can go out there day after day with the stress, knowing at any time they could be killed, that any time their boats could be taken, at any time they could be arrested or shot.


AMY GOODMAN: Darlene Wallach, I wanted to remind our listeners and viewers about these boats, that the one—one of them you describe, the Liberty, that’s challenging the blockade. We were able to reach people on the boat in the first trip that was coming over. We spoke to the former prime minister of Britain’s sister-in-law, Tony Blair’s sister-in-law. We spoke to Jeff Halper, the Jewish Israeli who is challenging housing demolition. Mairead Maguire was on one of the trips; she is the Nobel Peace Prize-winner from Ireland. These are the boats that you’re describing that—not to be confused with the fishing boats, but are challenging the blockade.


DARLENE WALLACH: That’s correct. That’s correct.


So, I want to make sure that people understand, when they talk about the ceasefire, Israel has violated the ceasefire from day one; before it even was created, they were violating it. The ceasefire supposedly was going to lift the blockade and allow goods and services and food and fuel and that kind of thing, and Israel has never lifted that blockade.


Israel has violated the ceasefire every day by, when the fishermen go out to fish, Israel navy comes and shoots at the boats. They use high-pressure water power; they have a water cannon that they shoot at the boats that damages the boats, injures people. They’ve cut the cables. The fishermen have lost their fishing nets.


On a daily basis, the farmers who try to go out and farm their fields get attacked. So, Israel created this buffer zone, 300- to 500-meters wide, along the whole length of the Gaza Strip. And that was done around May 1st. And that was a desert area, that whole area, where they demolished all kinds of crops, homes, wells. And in the crops, it was like citrus, dates, olives. Any kind of crop they had, it was all demolished. And farmers now are trying to go back out and start, you know, planting their fields and being able to harvest their fields. And we’ve been accompanying them.


And even just standing out there in the fields, where it’s just farmers, obviously knowing with any kind of military—no militants, just farmers, just people trying to tend their fields—the Israeli military comes by in their jeeps and gets out and starts shooting. So we’re a presence to be witness to that. We’re a presence to make sure that people aren’t killed. And when they start shooting, we’re standing out in the fields with our florescent vests on, some of us. And we stand there until the Israeli military leaves. We don’t back off. When they start shooting, we stand in the fields and having the bullets, you know, come around us, over our heads or by our feet.


AMY GOODMAN: Darlene Wallach, are you beginning a hunger strike today at the jail?


DARLENE WALLACH: I actually started a hunger strike last night. I didn’t eat dinner. And for me, they had someone talk with me yesterday, and saying that they are not going to allow me to die. So I don’t know what that means. For me, I’m still in the prison, and I still have my cell phone. Andrew Muncie was taken into isolation today, and his phone was taken from him.


AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you, Darlene Wallach, for joining us, speaking to us—the name of the prison you’re in near Tel Aviv?


DARLENE WALLACH: I always forget the name of it. It starts with an “M.” And it’s a new prison. It’s a men’s prison, but within the men’s compound, they have a compound for women.


And I just want to make sure people know that this blockade on Gaza, this siege, is really, really horrendous, what it’s doing. I mean, the flour mills are having to shut—the last flour mill shut down, because there’s no fuel. I mean, if people can’t buy bread, what are they going to eat? This is very, very, very serious. There’s 500 students with scholarship that can’t get out to go continue their university education. And there’s 3,000 students that are accepted to universities, that they’re losing their administrative entrance into the universities, because Israel will not allow them out. And 258 people have died, because Israel refuses to let them out to get medical care. And this is [inaudible].


AMY GOODMAN: Darlene Wallach, I want to thank you for being with us. We’re going to turn next to the South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who speaks about the blockade of Gaza. Darlene Wallach is speaking to us from the Masiyahu Prison near Tel Aviv. Again, executives from the Associated Press, Reuters, New York Times, BBC, CNN and other news organizations have signed a letter criticizing the Israeli government’s decision to ban journalists from entering Gaza


Democracy Now .org

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The Justice Department is expected to unveil indictments today against five Blackwater guards for their involvement in the killings of seventeen Iraqis in Baghdad in September of last year. The Blackwater guards facing charges have been identified as former Marine Evan Liberty; former Army sergeant Nick Slatten; former Marine Corporal Dustin Heard; former Marine Corporal Donald Ball; and Paul Slough, who served in the Army and the Texas National Guard. While the indictments will be unveiled in Washington, the Blackwater guards are expected to surrender today in Utah. By surrendering in Utah, the men could argue the case should be heard in a far more conservative, pro-gun venue than Washington. In Iraq, Mohamed al-Kinani called on the United States to prosecute the management of Blackwater as well.

Mohamed al-Kinani: “We hope to see a fair judgment that will impose the maximum penalty for them, not only the guards but the director who gave them the authority, weapons, vehicles and immunity. He must be taken to trial, because this is our demand.”

Mohamed al-Kinani was in his car with several members of his family when it came under fire from Blackwater guards. His nine-year-old son died in the shooting.

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In Pakistan, armed militants attacked two truck terminals in northwestern Pakistan Sunday, destroying more than 150 trucks loaded with Humvees and other supplies for American and allied forces in Afghanistan. The attack occurred on the outskirts of the city of Peshawar, where a car bombing on Friday killed thirty-four and wounded more than 100 people.

Commander: US Needs to Double Troop Level in Afghanistan
The top commander of US and NATO troops in Afghanistan has told USA Today that the United States will need nearly twice as many troops for up to four years to stabilize Afghanistan. Gen. David McKiernan said the US needs to raise troop levels from about 32,000 to around 60,000. A new report by the International Council on Security and Development estimates that the Taliban have expanded their footprint in Afghanistan and now have a permanent presence in nearly three-quarters of the country.

Pakistan Raids Militant Camp
In other news from the region, Pakistani security forces have reportedly raided a camp used by militants blamed for the Mumbai attacks and arrested more than a dozen people, including one of the suspected masterminds of the attack.

Police Killing Sparks Riots in Greece
In Greece, the police killing of a fifteen-year-old has sparked three days of clashes between the police and youths. The unrest began in Athens but has spread across the country.

Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA) Defeated
And in Louisiana, Democratic Congressman William Jefferson has lost his bid for a tenth term in office. Jefferson lost to Republican lawyer Anh “Joseph” Cao, who will become the first Vietnamese American to serve in Congress. Last year, Jefferson was indicted for bribery, racketeering, money laundering and obstruction of justice. Green Party candidate Malik Rahim placed third in the race.

Democracy Now.org

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EXCLUSIVE…AWOL US Soldier Seeks Asylum in Germany Over Returning to “Illegal” War in Iraq

US soldier who went absent without leave a year and a half ago to avoid returning to Iraq has applied for asylum in Germany. Specialist Andre Shepherd served in Iraq between September 2004 and February 2005 as an Apache helicopter mechanic. When his unit was called up to return to Iraq in early 2007, he went AWOL to avoid redeployment, calling the war “illegal.” He lived underground in Germany for a year and a half before applying for asylum two weeks ago. We speak with Shepherd in his first international broadcast interview

AMY GOODMAN: We’re on the road in Berlin, East Berlin, to be exact, East Berlin, Germany. Soldier underground. Today, a Democracy Now! international broadcast exclusive. A US soldier who went absent without leave a year and a half ago to avoid returning to Iraq has applied for asylum in Germany.


Specialist Andre Shepherd served in Iraq between September 2004 and February 2005 as an Apache helicopter mechanic. After his tour of duty, he returned to Germany, where he’s based. When his unit was called up to return to Iraq in early 2007, he went AWOL to avoid redeployment, calling the war “illegal.” He lived underground in Germany for a year and a half before applying for asylum two weeks ago. Andre Shepherd may become the first American soldier to test German laws that could grant asylum to war resisters.


Andre Shepherd joins us now on the phone now from southern Germany in his first national broadcast interview.


Andre Shepherd, we welcome you to Democracy Now! Can you tell us why you’re applying for asylum in Germany?


ANDRE SHEPHERD: Hi, Amy. It’s great to be here.


It’s for several reasons, actually, as to why. First of all, since I went AWOL, you know, in early 2007, there was no other recourse, you know, in order to return back to the United States or travel to another country. So, I was here in Germany and everything, so this would be the most logical place to be.


The second reason is because of the stand of, you know, the German government and the German people against the war. There is overwhelming support for the antiwar movement that has been going on since the beginning of the Iraq war. So it would also be, you know, a logical reason for that.


And third of all, because of the—you know, the Nuremberg trials were based here in Germany in 1948, about sixty years ago, where they say that everybody, including soldiers, would—you know, must take responsibility for all of their actions. So, that would mean that if you’re in an illegal war, that means the soldier also is doing something illegal. So I think that it would be best for me to apply for asylum in Germany, as well, because of the actual stance and the historical precedents that have been set, you know, in this land.


AMY GOODMAN: Andre, talk about why you joined the military, where you were born, where you grew up.


ANDRE SHEPHERD: OK. I was born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio. I lived in that [inaudible] my entire life. I went to—graduated from Lakewood High School in 1995, and then I attended Kent State University, about twenty, twenty-five miles south of Cleveland, until about spring of 2000.


After I left college, I ended up working several jobs to try to make ends meet, because I couldn’t get, you know, a job in the field of study that I was in, which was computer science, because at that time the dotcom bubble had burst. So I was—end up working the line of low-paying jobs, you know, like being a courier, vacuum cleaner salesman, even working for, you know, work-today-pay-today kind of jobs. And it was not really an easy existence. I ended up being homeless twice, and things like that.


And what happened was, was that in the summer of 2003, you know, right after the invasion and everything, I was walking past the recruiter’s office, and he spoke to me about, you know, wanting to help people and everything, so I went in. You know, we had a cup of coffee and everything, and he was explaining to me about, you know, what the military—what the military’s role in the world, you know, as of this time was, you know, speaking about basically all the dictators in the world, like Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong-il, you know, the usual suspects from the Axis of Evil. And he was mentioning about September 11th and about the war on terror and everything and talking about how America stands for freedom and democracy and how we should—you know, they needed people like me to be part of the frontline in this war against, you know, tyranny and oppression and everything. So that sounded pretty good to me. I was a little taken aback by it, because it’s not every day someone, you know, asks you to help save the world or anything like that. But at the same time, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to join the military right away because of, you know, being in a military structure and giving your life over for a number of years and everything, because I’m a very independent-minded person.


But then he started talking about the benefits, you know, about the steady pay, the free housing, the free medical care, the paid tuition for school, you know, everything like that. And for me, being down on my luck and everything and being homeless twice and everything, that actually sounded like a really good idea, because I, you know, wanted to put my life on the right path, where I could actually get my life straight, you know, finish my degree and, you know, going about my life, reaching the goals in my life.


But I still wasn’t really convinced, because I didn’t want to sign my life away for eight years, you know, like as I have said before. But that’s when they told me about, you didn’t have to sign up for eight years, because they had a new program at that time about signing up for the Army for a few months—in my case, it was fifteen months—where you could try out the Army and then you could leave. At that time, I didn’t know about, you know, the stop-loss or about the Individual Ready Reserve, where even after you leave the military service for up to eight years, you are subject to be called back from the military for additional deployments or whatever they need you for.


So—and then he also mentioned about the $5,000 bonus. And that really caught my eye, because I thought, you know, having at least a little nest egg to begin with, I can actually build my life up, you know, from there. So after a few months of thinking about it and everything, I decided to join the military in January of 2004.

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AMY GOODMAN: So, you joined, and you trained to be an Apache helicopter mechanic?


ANDRE SHEPHERD: That’s correct.


AMY GOODMAN: And where, then, did you originally go in Iraq? How did you end up joining your unit?


ANDRE SHEPHERD: What happened was, was after I graduated from the Advanced Individual Training in Fort Eustis, I was sent to Katterbach, Germany to join the 601st Aviation Support Battalion. At the time, when I joined basic training in February, that was when the unit had deployed to Iraq, so they were already six months in theater. So when I arrived there, I was sent on to join the unit in Camp Speicher, which is outside of Tikrit in Iraq.


AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about your days in Iraq, what exactly you did. Did you meet Iraqis? Did you kill Iraqis?


ANDRE SHEPHERD: OK, I have to explain this, because my experiences weren’t like it was with the infantry, where the infantry was out every single day going on patrols, you know, kicking down doors and everything like that, because as an Apache mechanic, our primary job was to make sure that the helicopters stay in the air. All the time, we were always mission-ready. So we work twelve-hour days, six days a week, you know, every single week, because we had to keep the Apaches in the air. We had to do, you know, phases, where we would do like complete maintenance on the helicopters and everything like that.


Sometimes there would be duties where you would go for guard duty, you know, to watch a group of Iraqis who were coming onto the base so they could, you know, build the fences, like, sand the fences or, you know, painting or different things like that. So we would actually give them money, where they could, you know, actually feed their families or take care of themselves and things like that. So the extent of my interactions with the Iraqis were very minimal. It was either by, you know, passing by them while they’re working or, you know, when they’re waiting for the trucks and everything, saying hello and things like that, but not out on the streets or anything like that. It was a completely different experience than what it would have been had I been working for the infantry or any of the, you know, the tank commanders or the cavalry or anything like that.


AMY GOODMAN: You talk about fixing the Apache helicopters. What about the air war in Iraq?


ANDRE SHEPHERD: Now, this one is a serious point of contention, because in the research that I have done over several years, the extent of damage that has happened in Iraq—you know, with the infrastructure being totally destroyed, you know, their not having enough power, there’s no water, some photos of bullet holes from 30mm chain guns going through buildings and everything—all of this cannot have been done by the infantry. This is true.


To get concrete evidence on the air war, it’s very, very, very difficult. There are several articles that I have read, where journalists are very—you know, even journalists are frustrated as to trying to get accurate numbers, you know, how much munitions that were done, how many sorties were flown, what kind of ammunition was used. So, you know, they keep getting stonewalled by the military. I asked the pilots about their missions and everything, and I was told that their missions are—you know, for operational security, they’re not allowed to talk about them. So what I would have to rely on was basically what was being reported, you know, with what little information the journalists can dig up.


But I’m sure it was quite extensive, because many units are flying like, you know, several thousand missions a year, you know, doing patrols in Iraq, used in support for the infantry, just doing patrols throughout the cities and everything. And, you know, with the constant refueling and rearming, you know they’re using the ammunition for something. They’re just not just using them only for test fire. So we know that they’re being done. But like I was saying in the beginning, the extent of the damage, you know, with what is going on is the masses of civilians that have been killed as a result of, you know, of the air war, which is too big to just pin onto the infantry. I know that, you know, especially the Apache has played a significant part in the Iraq war,especially in the last five years.

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When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down

AMY GOODMAN: And, Andre Shepherd, how did you do this research? You say you got more and more information as you were researching while you were in Iraq, what led you to believe you couldn’t be a part of this any longer. How did you do research in Iraq?


ANDRE SHEPHERD: OK, now, in Iraq, there was actually a limited opportunity to do so. It was more so once I redeployed back to Germany. What we had for our breaks and everything, they had a little place where you could go and use the internet, you know, mainly to chat with families or check email and things like that. So that’s where I would spend one hour a day, starting to look up the causes for the Iraq war, as to, you know, what exactly are we doing there, and what kind of impact that I had being an Apache mechanic, you know, and keeping the Apaches in the air, figuring out how my contribution to the war affects the daily life of the Iraqi people.


What I had been finding out from there, you know, looking at several sources and everything, is that—you know, about the lies that the Bush administration has told, that they have continued to perpetuate, especially in the last ABC interview that Mr. Bush has given, talking about the—none of the WMDs have been found in Iraq or anything, about the widespread damage that has been going on, about the sentiments of the Iraqi people, the sentiments of different soldiers, depending on which site you would go to, and things like this. And I’ve pretty much been building a massive database on things that I have been collecting over the years, including the laws, you know, of the United States, international law, things like that referring to the legality of the war, and especially with the public opposition that’s been going on, you know, particularly in Germany. You know, there’s huge sections of the United States that were opposing it. Pretty much all over the world.


So, this began in Iraq, you know, like I said, for one hour a day, but once I came back to Germany, when I bought a computer and actually had a constant internet connection, I could actually do intensive research, you know, for like two, maybe three, four hours a day, you know, after work, just seeing what was going on.


AMY GOODMAN: Andre, we’re going to break, and then we’re going to come back to this conversation. And we’ll also be joined by Elsa Rassbach, and we’re going to talk about US military bases in Germany. There are more bases here than anywhere in the world. Finally, we’re going to be joined by a German lawyer who has sued Donald Rumsfeld, and we’re going to talk about the Senate report that just came out on the former Secretary of Defense.


This is Democracy Now! We’re broadcasting from Berlin. Stay with us.


[break]


AMY GOODMAN: We’re broadcasting from Berlin, actually from East Berlin, here in Germany, as Democracy Now! goes on the road and wraps up our European trip. We’re joined on the telephone from another part of Germany by Andre Shepherd. He could be the first US soldier to apply for political asylum here in Germany, refusing to return to Iraq. He’s gone underground. He’s gone AWOL.


We’re also joined here in Berlin by Elsa Rassbach. She is a US citizen and activist who’s lived in Germany for the past eighteen years. She’s a member of American Voices Abroad Military Project and of the German affiliate of the War Resisters’ International.


Before we go to Elsa, I wanted to go back to Andre and ask—so, you came back here to Germany. Where were you? And what does it mean to go AWOL? What did you do? You left the base?

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When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down