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Old 22nd August 2008, 23:36
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Post What Is Islam ?

Ans ; Some Muslims will say , It is the Submission to the will of their God , Allah . However , The word Islaam is taken from the 5th name of their God , Allah , As Salaam meaning The Peace , '' Taken from The Ashuric / Syriac Arabic root word '' Salama , Meaning '' To Have , To Be Peaceful ''; Which Euro-Arab and Muslims greeting '' As Salaamu 'Alaykum , '' Meaning '' Peace Be Upon You , Come from , The word Salaam was derived from The Aramic / Hebrew word Shalom , Meaning '' Peace . ''



What Is A Muslim ?

Ans ; The word Muslim is derived from The Ashuric / Syriac Arabic word Salama meaning '' One Who Is Of Peace ,


Is Islam a continuation of Christianity?

The Noble's Koran confirms it when it calls Jesus the word of God - Kalim Allah ) ( The Noble's Koran Chapters 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 171 ) and the Spirit or the Soul of God - Al Ruwh Allah )
( Koran 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 5 ; 110 , 4 ; 171 , 21 ; 91 ) , It has a whole chapter , the Nineteeth Chapter , dedicated to the Blessed Mother Miriam , Maryam , Mary called Maryam .

It speaks about the '' immaculate conception '' and how Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus was blessed in this world and in the one to come ( The Noble's Koran 3 ; 46 ) . When you strip away all of the customs , traditions and tenets of Islam , you will be left standing there with Christianity . But the name Christian must go . So Islam is the true religion of peace of Jesus .

This book that Muhammad received from the Angelic Being Gabriel the Holy Spirit Comforter was called Al Qur'aan ( The Noble's Koran ) . The word Qur'aan means to literally '' Read ' and in The Noble's Koran Chapter 96 . the Angelic Being Gabriel asked Muhammad to do just that '' Read ' Yet the Muslims claim that Muhammad could not read .

The Noble's Koran Chapter 96 ( with Arabic inserts )
Read < iq-raa > in the name < bis -mee > of your Lord < rab -be - ka > who < al - la d -he > created < kha - la -qa > , ''
Read in the name of your Lord who created ...

Why would God send his angel to Muhammad and ask him to read if God being the all Knowing Al A'lim knows Muhammad can't read ? I will tell you ; in order to fulfill a prophesy in the laws's of Moshen , Musa , Moses , Prophet Isaiah in The Noble's Koran and Islamic studies as Shaya , Read the Book of Isaiah 29 ; 11 ,

The Holy - Isaiah 29 ; 11 ( with Modern Hebrew script )
And the vision < chazuwth > of all is becomes unto you as the words < dabar > of a book < cepher > that is sealed < chatham > , which men deliver < nathan > to one that is learned < yada > saying < amar > , Read < qara > this , I pray thee ; and he saith < amar > , I Cannot
< yakol > for it is sealed < chatham > .
And the vision of all is become unto you as the word of a book that is sealed which men delivered to one that is learned saying < Read this I pray thee and he said I cannot for it is sealed >

And in The Holy - Isaiah 29 ; 12 ( with Modern Hebrew script )
And the book < cephers > is delivered < nathan > to him that is not learned < yada > < cepher > , saying < amar > , Read < aqara > this , I pray thee ; and he said < amar > , I am not learned < yada >
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned , saying . < Read this , I pray thee ; and he saith , I am not learned >

This is exactly what the Muslims claim about the Angel Gabriel who is the Holy Ghost John 16 ; 12 - 15 and John 15 ; 26 '' But when the Conforter is come , whom I will send unto you from the Father , < even the Spirit > of truth , which proceedeth from the Father , he shall testify of me ; '' Where you see '' < even > the spirit '' Even Mean < also > .

So you have the Comforter whom Yashu'a , Isa Jesus will send ( I ) from the Father ( El ) and he will have with him the Spirit of truth , And The Noble's Koran is called Al Kitaabl Haq '' The book of truth '' . None of it is Muhammad's own words John 15 ; 26 . Muhammad testified of Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus coming after him The Noble's Koran 4 ; 159 .

The Noble's Koran 4 ; 159 ( with Arabic script )
And verily , from the family of the scripture ( from Adam to Muhammad ) there is not anyone that should not believe by way of him ( Jesus ) before he dies , and the day of resurrection he ( Jesus ) will be a witness over them '' . ( Koran 110 , 2 ; 214 , 61 ; 13 - 14 , John 3 ; 18 , 5 ; 24 , 8 ; 21 - 24 , 1John 4 ; 3 . Roman 10 ; 9 ) .

The muslims say in their Hadith that Gabriel appeared in the 40th year of Muhammad's life on the 27th day of the moth of Rajah , in a cave in Arabia , while he was praying and meditating in the Moutn called Hira , in the year 610 A.D. The cave was immediately lit in with a light and in the midst of it , he beheld the figure of a man in physical form ( Daniel 9 ; 21 ) . It was The Holy Bible's Heavenly Host , the Holy Ghost , Spirit of Truth known as the Angel Gabriel , a name which means '' A man sent from God . '' Luke 1 ; 19 '' And the angel answering said unto him , I am Gabriel that stand in the presence of God ; and am sent to speak unto thee and to show thee these glad tidings . ,

'' In John 14 ; 26 '' But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost , whom the Father will send in my name , he shall teach you all things , and bring all things to to your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you . The Comforter <gree > parakletos - par-ak'-ak - lay -tos ) is the Holy Ghost ( hagios hag'- ee-os ( holy - pneuma pnyoo - mah ( ghosy ) whom the Father ( El ) will send in my ( Jesus ) name ( Gabriel ) . Now look at Luke 2 ; 21 '' And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child , his name was called Jesus - lesous ee-ay-sooce ) ,
( which was so named of the angel ) before he was conceived in the womb '' .

The angel shares the name or Jesus name . Now look at John 14 ; 26 , '' But the Comforter , which is the Holy Ghost , whom the Father will send ( in my name ) , he shall teach you all things , and bring all things to your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you ,

This quote John 14 ; 26 is making it clear when it states ( IN MY NAME ) '' that the angel was sending the comforter '' in His name , '' Meaning the comforter and the angel would share the same name , not a different name , and Jesus was given the name '' Jesus '' by the angel , whose name was also Jesus , because Luke 2 ; 21 states '' His name was called Jesus ( lesous ee -ay - sooc ) < which was so named of the angel > .

Jesus is a title as most names that you find in The Holy Bible . Although it is the Greek , it is found in the Greek language as lesous ; it comes from the Hebrew root Yashu'a meaning '' Jehovah saves '' , Joshua is also a derivation of this root , which is Yehowshu'a which also means Jehovah is salvation '' , The angel ( Heavenly messenger ) came giveing a gift to Mary that would be the salvation from the sins of the world . The name Gabriel is also a title that means Mighty man of God '' , It breaks down to Geber '' Mighty man , warrior '' and El '' God '' , There were other men of The Holy Bible that were also considered Geber or ghibbore because they were men of God and mortal . For instance , Samson was considered a Gibbore or mighty man . He also had a divine birth by an angel ( Gabriel ) who visited his mother Merav as found in
( Judges 13 ; 9 - 10 , 13 ; 24 ) as he visited Elizabeth for the birth of John the Baptist ( Luke 1 ; 35 - 36 , 57 ) , All of this is to say that the Angel Gabriel has been back and forth to earth many times as a bearer of good news or divine '' presents '' in the case of children and he is also called the Holy Ghost .

So we have the Holy Ghost , which is the angel Gabriel , whom is a Comforter
< greek > parakletos - par - ak - lay - tos ) bringing the message of the Spirit of Truth , John 15 ; 26 , '' But when the Comforter is come , whom I will send unto you from the father , even the Spirit of truth , which proceedeth from the Father , he shall tesify of me ; ''

Now it says , But when the Comforter is come whom I ( Jesus ) will send unto you from the Father ( El ) even ( also ) the ( Spirit of Truth ) . No one , is the Comforter , as the Holy Ghost '' angel '' who can't speak for himself as an angel ; yet can speak through another . Now the other is a Comforter '' Man '' who could speak of and for himself but Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus said he will not in John 14 ; 16 - 18 , And I will pray the Father , And he shall give you another Comforter , that he may abide with you for ever , 17 , Even the Spirit of truth ; whom the world cannot receive , because it seeth him not , neither knoweth him ; but ye know him ; for he dwelleth with you . and shall be in you . 18 . I will not leave you comfortless ; I will come to you ,

So he ( Jesus ) will leave the Holy Spirit of Truth with you . The Angel Gabriel is both the Holy Ghost and brings the Spirit of Truth . Then came to Muhammad and gave him the truth about Jesus . THAT ALL BETTER BELIEVE ON HIM BEFORE THEY DIE . And filled Muhammad with the Holy Ghost . And he became the Comforter in the physical , and spoke with the Spirit of truth who would not speak about himself . John 14 ; 27 , Peace I leave with you , My peace I give unto you ; Not as the world giveth , give I unto you . Let not your heart be troubled . neither let it be afraid , '' Begins with the word peace '' Islam '' or '' Blessed are the Peacemaker .... Matthew 5 ;9 ,

Now , Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus tells you that he must go before the Comforter can come John 16 ; 7-11 , But he left the angel with you , but this one , a man . Muhammad can't come until Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus is gone , and when Muhammad came , he did not speak about himself or family in his Book of Truth . John 16 ; 12 - 14 did not speak about himself . The Noble's Koran had no story on Muhammad 's 1. Birth 2 . Death 3 . Family 4 . Mother 5 . Father 6 . Children 7 . Date of Birth 8 . How he died 9 . Where he died 10 . Where he lived 11 . Grandparents 12 . Descendent .

He did not speak of himself but he did speak of Jesus in The Noble's Koran ; 1 . Birth 2 . Death .
3 . Family 4 . Mother 5 . How God Raised Him 6 . Where he was born 7 . How He Was Born 8 . Miracles 9 . Descendents 10 . Grandparents and more . ( Muhammad did glorify his name calling him Messiah , the Word of God , the Spirit of God , Illustrious in this world and in the one to come .

The angel is the angel of Revelation of good tidings who reveals the gospel of God to his prophets the Spirit of Truth ( Luke 1 ; 26 '' and in the sixth moth the angel Gabriel was sent from Almighty God unto a city of Galilee named Nazareth , '' The Noble's Koran also says that he was illustrius in this world and in the one to come ( The Noble's Koran 3 ; 45 ) calling him '' The word of God '' ( The Noble's Koran 4 ; 171 ) . He is also referred to as '' Al Masih '' The Messiah or anointed one the Christ '' ( The Noble's Koran 3 ; 45 ) . mentions that all the family of the scripture must accept him before they die ( The Noble's Koran 4 ; 157 ) .


So does this imply that many Christians don't realize that Muslims believe in Jesus Christ just as firmly as they do although there are many Muslims who don't want to admit to this .
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Last edited by AmenRaEl : 22nd August 2008 at 23:41.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 23:42
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You often hear many Muslims saying 'Islam means peace' and it does share a common root with submission. But what I have read is that Islam means submission to God and that a Muslim is one WHO submits to God.

What is said though, that one is at peace with himself once he has submitted to God.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 23:49
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As Salaamu Alaykum ~ Ronin ~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
You often hear many Muslims saying 'Islam means peace' and it does share a common root with submission. But what I have read is that Islam means submission to God and that a Muslim is one WHO submits to God.

What is said though, that one is at peace with himself once he has submitted to God.


I Can Overstand That Just Shareing !

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Old 24th August 2008, 00:43
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Exclamation Quotes On Isa Son Of Mary !

The Messiah Jesus Is Glorified In The Qur'an More Than Any Other Prophet. He Is Mentioned In 15 Chapters. One Of The More Common Titles For The Messiah Jesus Is '' Son Of Mary ''. He Is Mentioned 15 Times As Isa Ibn Maryam ( Jesus , Son Of Mary ) ; 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 , 5 ; 49 , 5 ; 81 , 5 ; 113 , 5 ; 115 , 5 ; 117 , 5 ; 119 , 19 ; 34 , 33 ; 7 , 57 ; 27 , 61 ; 6 ,

Fourteen times as the Son of Mary , Ibn Maryam ) alone or with some other title; 5 ; 19 ( twice ), 49 ; 78 , 113 , 115 , 117 , 119 , 9 ; 31 , 19 ; 34 , 23 ; 50 , 43 ; 57 , 57 ; 27 , 61 ; 6 .

Once as the sign of the hour -- Alamus Saa'ati ) ; 43 ; 61

Eleven times as Rasuwl , 2 ; 87 , 3 ; 49 , 4 ; 157 , 5 ; 78 , 57 ; 27 , 2 ; 253 , 3 ; 52 - 53 , 4 ; 171 , 5 ; 114 , 61 ; 6 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned on the Qur'an nine times named in conjuction with other Prophets ; 2; 136 , 3 ; 84 , 4 ; 163 , 5 ; 81 , 33 ; 7 , 42 ; 13 , 57 ; 26 - 27 , 6 ; 85 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as Isa in the Qur'an 10 times; 2 ; 136 , 3 ; 51 , 3 ; 54 , 3 ; 59 , 3 ; 84 , 4 ; 163 , 6 ; 85 , 42 ; 13 , 19 ; 34 , 43 ; 63 ,

The Messiah Jesus occurs in connection with Ar Ruhu -- as often as five times in the Qur'an. 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 5 ; 110 , 4 ; 171 , 21 ; 91 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a witness Shahidan - in the Qur'an twice -- 4 ; 159 , 5 ; 120 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as blessed Mubaarakan --- in the Qur'an once ; 19 ; 31 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as illustrious Wajihan --- in the Qur'an once 3 ; 45

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - Ayat - -- in the Qur'an four times; 3 ; 48 , 19 ; 21 , 21 ; 91 , 23 ; 50 ..

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - mercy - Rahmah -- in the Qur'an once ; 19 ; 21 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - a statement of the truth - Qawlal -- Haqqi ) ; 19 ; 34 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as of those near ( to Allah ) , Min Al Muqarrabiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as of the righteous - Min As Salihiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as an example -- Mathal ) in the Qur'an twice ; 43 ; 57 , 43 ; 59 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a simulator -- Mathalan -- in the Qur'an once 3 ; 59 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as Al Masih -- the Messiah ) 11 times in the once ; 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 , 4 ; 172 , 5 ; 19 ( twice ) 5 ; 75 ( twice ) 5 ; 78 , 9 ; 30 , 9 ; 31 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as slave -- Abd --- three times in the Qur'an . 4 ; 172 , 19 ; 30 , 43 ; 59 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned once as a prophet -- Nabian ); 19 ; 30

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a word --- Kalima -- in the Qur'an twice ; 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 171 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as be and he became --- Kuwn Fayakuwn ) in the Qur'an once 3 ; 59

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as her son --- Ibnaha in the Qur'an once . 21 ; 91 . The Prophet Muhammad Is Mentioned Four Times 48 ; 29 ; 3 ; 144 ; 33 ; 40 ; 47 ; 2


Jesus Has Many Titles In The Koran . Now Stating That Muhammad Is '' The Rasuwl Allah '' , And You So-called Muslims Base Your Belief Around His Teaching , Wouldn't It Be Out Of Mere Respect That You Bse Your Book On Jesus Christ Throughout Your Text ? Moses Is Spoken Of In The Koran ; Gabriel ( Koran 2 ; 97 - 98 ) , David ( Koran 6 ; 84 , 21 ; 78 - 80 ) , Jacob ( Koran 2 ; 132 - 133 ) , And Many Other Prophets ; But Why Would You Dedicate The Whole 19th Chapter To Jesus ' Mother ( The Chapter Of Mary ) , And A Whole Chapter To The Birth Of Jesus ( The 4th Chapter Of The Women ) ? And I Can Go On . While On The Other Hand , Basically , Only One Chapter Is Dedicated To Muhammad ( Chapter 47 Of Muhammad ) . NoWhere In The Koran Is Muhammad Called A Savior Or Messiah. In Fact, Muslims Compare Moses And Muhammad And Not Muhammad And Jesus Which Makes Jesus On A Higher Level.

What I Mean By This Is , If You Make A Comparison Of How The Koran Talks About Moses And Muhammad You Will See How Jesus Is Praised More Than Muhammad Himself. The Following Chart Will Compare The Likeness Of These Men And Show You How Jesus Is Exalted Above Moses And Muhammad . According To Them ;

Muhammad --- Was only A Man / Born Of An Earthly Father And Mother / He Married / He Did Not Die For Everyone's Sins / Has A Spirit Like A Norman Person / He Got His Calling At The Age Of 40 / He Had Children / Was A Prophet / Received Book Himself Koran / Died A Natural Death / Body Was Put In The Ground ....

Moses --- Was only A Man / Born Of An Earthly Father And Mother / He Married / He Did Not Die For Everyone's Sins / Has A Spirit Like A Norman Person / He Got His Calling At The Age Of 40 /He Had Children / Was A Prophet / Received Book Himself , Torah / Died A Natural Death / Body Was Put In The Ground ....

Jesus ---- Is A God / No Earthly Father Mentioned / Did Not Marry / Died For Everyone's Sins / His Spirit Came Down Directly From God / Started His Mission At Birth / He Had No Children / Was A Messiah / Did Not Receive Book Himself / Did Not Die A Natural Death / Was Taken Up By Allah .

When You Put All Of These Comparisons Together , They Make Jesus Something Divine; And For Further Proof, In Your Own Koran 2 ; 253 , It Clearly States That Jesus Is Exalted Over Other Prophets.



Koran 2 ; 253 ( In Arabic ) TILKA ( THAT'S ) AL RUSUL ( THE ONES SENT FADDALNAA ( WE WERE MORE PLEASED ) BADAHUM ( WITH SOME OF THEM ) ALA ( WITH ) NADIN ( OTHERS ) MINHUM ( FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( TO WHOM ) KALLAMA ( SPOKE ) AL - LAH ) ( THE SOURCE ) WA ( AND ) RAFA-A ( HE RAISED ) BADAHUM ( SOME OF THEM ) DARAJAAT ( IN RANKS ) WA ( AND ) AATAYNAA ( WE GAVE ) EESAA ( JESUS ) INBA ( DON OF ( MARYAM ( MARYAM ) AL BAYYINAAT ) THE CLEAR EVIDENCES ) WA ( AND ) AYYADNAAHU ) AND WE SUPPORTED , AIDED HIM ) BE ROOH ( BY WAY OF THE SOUL ) AL QUDUS ( THE HOLY ) WA ( AND ) LOW ( IF ) SHAA ( PLEASES ) AL - LAH ( THE SOURCE ) MAA ( WOULD NEVER ) AQTATALA ( FOUGHT TO KILL ) AL - LAZEENA ( THOSE WHO ) MIN ( FROM AMONGST ) BADIHIM ) SOME OF THEM ) MIN ( FROM ) NADIMAA ) AFTERWARDS ) JAA-ATHUM ( HAS COME TO THEM ) AL BAYYINAAT ( THE CLEAR EVIDENCES ) WA ( AND ) LAAKIN ( BUT ) AKHTALAFOO ( DIFFERED ) FAMINHUM ( SO THERE FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( ARE THOSE ) AMANA ( ARE FAITHFUL ) WA ( AND ) MINHUM ( FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( THOSE WHO ) KAFARA ( WHO CONCEAL WHAT THEY KNOW TO BE TRUE ) WA ( AND ) LOW ( IF ) SHAA ( PLEASES ) AL -LAH ( THE SOURCE ) MAA ( WOULD NEVER ) AQTATALOO ( FOUGHT TO KILL ) WA ( AND ) LAAKIN ( BUT ) AL - LAH ( THE SOURCE ) YAF - AL ( HE DOES ) MAA ( WHAT ) YUREED ( HE WANTS TO DO ) That's How It Is With The Ones Sent ; We The Elohim Were More Pleased With Some Than Others . There Were Some To Whom Allah Spoke , And He Raised Some Of Them In Ranks, And We The Elohim Gave Jesus , Son Of Mary , The Criteria Of Clear Evidence And Supported Him By Way Of The Holy Soul , Gabriel , One Who Come From El , Nusku .... And If It Pleased The Source , Those After Them Would Never Have Fought To Kill Amongst Themselves After The Clear Evidences Had Come To Them , But They Had Differences. And Of Them There Were Some Who Had Faith In It; While Others O Them Are Those Who Conceal What They Know To Be The Truth. And If It Pleased The Source They Would Have Never Fought To Kill Amongst Themselves , But It Is Up To Allah Because He Does What He Wants To Do .

And With These Comparisins The Proof That Moses And Muhammad Were The Same Kind Of Prophet According To Them And That Jesus Was Not Like Them Raised Jesus In Ranks Above Them As It Says In Koran 2 ; 253 . Because All Of The Similarities Between Moses And Muhammad Were Natural Orders By The Laws Of God Namely , Marriage , Natural Birth By Mother And Father And Natural Deaths. If These Are Laws Of God And Jesus Didn't Do Them , Then Jesus Was Above The LAaw Of God Or Was A God. So To Avoid This Reality Muslims Will Say That The Whole Bible Was Tampered With . So You Tell Me, Mr. Muhammadan , Shi-ite , Ahmadiyite, Wahbai , Or Any Other Sect Of Moslems Which You Name Yourselves, According To Your Belief, Is Jesus The God Of The Koran? The Reason Why I Ask This Question Is Because Out Of All The Thousands Of Religion All Over The Planet Earth , Muslims Seem Set On Trying To Defeat The Power Of Christianity And Its Ability To Convert People World Wide.

The Koran Seems To Center Around Conflicts With Pagan Tribes Of Arabia , But Really Never Addresses Their Religious Beliefs, Or The Characters Of Their Religion. However , Whole Chapters Are Devoted To Christianity , Almost Every Personality In Christianity Is Found In The Koran . Muslims Emulate The Ethiopian Falasha And Coptic Christians In Their Dress. They Take Their Prayer Beads From The Rosaies Of The Catholic Church. They Take Their Prostation In Peayer From The Falasha Tribes; Their Fasting From Christianity . Their Not Eating Pork From Judaism; Their Concept Of Pilgrimage To A Holy Shrine From Christianity And Judaism. Jesus Is The Main Charactr Of The Koran. In Fact , Most Of The Muslims Scholars, Such As Ahmed Deedat , Dr. Jamal Badawi , Dr. Irving , Dr. Gary Miller, To Mention A Few , Constantly Quote From The Christian Bible ( The Book Of St. John Chapter 16 ; 7 And Refer To Their Prophet Mustafa Muhammad Al Amin Born In The Year 570 A.D. Died In The Year 632 A.D. In Arabia ,

As This Comforter . Yet , They Claim That The Bible Is Tampered With. It Is About Time That The Muslim World Acknowledges That Allah Of The Koran Is The Father Of Jesus ; Just As In Christianoity Not By Conception , But By Spirit . And That They Are Nothing More Than A Modern Day Sect Of Christians And Should Prepare Themselves For The Coming Of The Messiah .
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Old 24th August 2008, 03:03
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interesting points you bring up, and although Moses (a.s) may not have as many titles as Isa (a.s), Moses is none the less the most mentioned prophet in the Quran by name - 136 times


I do have some problems though with how you say Jesus is shown as more exalted than Muhammad (even though Jesus is highly praised and respected in the Quran - His status is not higher than Muhammads - you are forgetting Muhammad is The Chosen One- Al Mustafa , and Beloved of Allah - Habibullah.

In this post about Jesus - you are soley using Quranic Ayat - to claim Jesus's alleged higher status - yet you say the following in your comparison:

"Jesus ---- Is A God / No Earthly Father Mentioned / Did Not Marry / Died For Everyone's Sins / His Spirit Came Down Directly From God / Started His Mission At Birth / He Had No Children / Was A Messiah / Did Not Receive Book Himself / Did Not Die A Natural Death / Was Taken Up By Allah . "

Some of this information is TRUE, yet many things you have mentioned are not only unislamic but also fundamentally against what the QURAN says regarding Jesus.....

You say Jesus:

1) "Is a God" - This not only contradicts the Quran but the most fundamental aspect of islam - Tawheed - Oneness of God... You are going against the Quran when it states:

"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:75).

Again it says "They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. (5:72)

2) Had "No earthly father" This is correct - and the Quran reaffirms the virgin birth - yet this is by no means any justification for divinity of Jesus. As the Qurans reminds us of another miraculous creation......

"Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. (3:59)."

The Quran is pointing out that where Jesus was created without a father - Adam was created without Mother OR Father.... Eve was created from a RIB! so ask yourself which is an even greater miracle? This is the wisdom behind the comparison here.

3) "Died for everyones' sins" - This is not mentioned ANYWHERE in the very book you are quoting from. If anything this verse will illustrate Jesus's mission and standing before God:

"And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).

His mission and message the same as all prophets before him and as Muhammad's after him- Your Lord is One - worship Him Alone.

4) "Did not receive Book himself" Again you are contradicting what the Quran is saying - because the Injeel is the Book given unto Jesus:

"We sent other apostles, and after those Isa the son of Mariam. We gave him the Gospel and put compassion and mercy in the hearts of his followers." (57:27)

5) "Did not die a natural death" & "Was taken up by Allah" - According to Islam - Jesus STILL has not died as you have rightfully said has been raised by Allah - as such the Maseeh will return at a later time (Once the False Messiah -Anti-Christ/Dajjal appears) and will then live for an appointed time, marry and die a natural death and be buried in Madinah - according to Ahadeeth.

You also say "And For Further Proof, In Your Own Koran 2 ; 253 , It Clearly States That Jesus Is Exalted Over Other Prophets."

The Verse you are referring to says:

"These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit." (2:253)

This verse does not single Jesus out over all prophets it mentions that SOME prophets have been blessed more than others - it indirectly refers for example to God speaking with Moses, and some prophets being raised to higher ranks "AND" then Jesus is mentioned as being supported with miracles and the Holy Spirit - Gabriel.

Finally, some verses for you to reflect upon:

"Lo Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation." [33:56].

Muhammad is the Final Messenger sent for ALL Manking - even Jesus himself said he was only sent to guide the lost sheep of Israel - which compliments the Quranic view that Jesus was sent to Bani Israel - the last israelite prophet.

"Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets." (33:40)

"And surely you [O Muhammad] are indeed of a magnificent character." (68:4)


Also Muhammad himself said in hadeeth:

The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) has said: Do not over praise me as the Christians over-praised the son of Mary. I am His slave so say: 'Allah's slave and messenger' [Al-Bukhaari and Muslim]

Also the name Muhammad means Praiseworthy.



You also say:

"So You Tell Me, Mr. Muhammadan , Shi-ite , Ahmadiyite, Wahbai , Or Any Other Sect Of Moslems Which You Name Yourselves, According To Your Belief, Is Jesus The God Of The Koran? The Reason Why I Ask This Question Is Because Out Of All The Thousands Of Religion All Over The Planet Earth , Muslims Seem Set On Trying To Defeat The Power Of Christianity And Its Ability To Convert People World Wide."

Firstly, the name Muhammadan as you very well know is a derogatory term - which was first used by Crusaders and later was used by the West and Orientalists even up till the 20th century. It is unacceptable that you use such a terminology here - we do NOT worship Muhammad and our religion is by no means named after Muhammad in anyway. The name given to us by God is MUSLIM - please refer to us as such.

And a simple answer to your question is No, we do not believe Jesus is God or His son for that matter. And Islam is not 'trying' to defeat the alleged power of Christianity and its converting ability - just check the Guiness Book of World Records and you will already see Islam is the worlds "fastest growing religion".

"The Koran Seems To Center Around Conflicts With Pagan Tribes Of Arabia , But Really Never Addresses Their Religious Beliefs, Or The Characters Of Their Religion."

Hmm if you REALLY have read the Quran and you are claiming the Quran 'centers' around conflicts with the Quraysh then you have completely misundersood - or perhaps not even read the Quran - maybe just skim-read. Because in fact the PRIMARY source for Islamic Theology is the Quran THEN the Ahadeeth.

Furthermore, unlike the Bible, the Quran mentions Islam by Name as well as the adherants - Muslims. Jesus never uttered a thing about being 'Christian' or there being a 'Christianity' - likewise there is no 'Judaism' or 'Jewish' people in the Torah - there are the Ancient Hebrews and tribes of Israel (Jacob).

Going back to belief- unlike the Bible, the Quran SPECIFICIALLY, explicitley mentions our purpose of being here - one of the most quoted Quranic verses:

"And I (Allâh) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone)." (51:56)

There are so many examples but not enough time to go through all of the verses that deal with Islamic belief and character of Islam - but for time's sake I will try and list a few more.

"if the ocean became ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would be finished before the words of my Lord came to an end" (18:109); "And if all the trees that are in the earth were pens, and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans swelling it therefore, the words of Allah would not be exhausted. Surely, Allah is Mighty, Wise" (31 :27).

"Say, “He is God, the One. God, to Whom the creatures turn for their needs. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none like Him.” (112:1-4)

"If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love and forgive you your sins." ( 3:31)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things" (2:256)

"The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account" (3:19)

"And That They Are Nothing More Than A Modern Day Sect Of Christians And Should Prepare Themselves For The Coming Of The Messiah ."

Erm, Muslims ALREADY are awaiting and believe in the second coming of Al Maseeh.... and technically if you mean we are 'christian' in that we are followers of the prophet JESUS - as the ORIGINAL followers of Jesus did [The Nazarenes, not the 'christians'] then yes we are a 'true' sect of the followers of the Prophet Jesus.... if when you say Christian you mean one who believes in the Trinity and worships Jesus as God and/or Son of God. Then no we are not.

Last edited by Ronin : 24th August 2008 at 05:05.
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Old 24th August 2008, 14:19
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As Salaamu Alaykum ~Ronin

First Let Me Say I Mean No Disrespect Toward You Nor Islam Ok , As The Saying Goes The Hardest Thing To Discuss Is Religion And Politic . I Was Merely Stateing That Isa Son Of Mary Is Exalt More Then Any Prophet In The Qur'an / Bible . Before I Go On I Should Let You Know I Only Agree With Hadiyth That Are Backup By Qur'an Verses , To Me They Are Like Matthew , Mark , Luke Of The Bible Meaning Words Of Men ... I Also Don't Claim To Know Everything About Islam Or Christianity . I Can Also Agree To Disagree .I Also Read The Scriptures With A Open Mind , Not With Belief / Faith Etc .


Hadiyth - -- Hadiyth come from the word Hadatha meaning '' Existence Began To Be Had A Newly For The First Time '' Its plural Ahaadiyth . Ahaadiyth are supposedly records of actions , Utterance and customs of The Prophet Muhammad ; Any action done in his presence and the presence of his companions . As the Koran didn't give detains on certain practical matters . The faithful , The follower of Muhammad ,

Relied on the example of Muhammad thus when confronted with A situation in which A certain decision was necessary . Men would relate what The Prophet Muhammad did in the same or similar case . The most reliable Narrator's account would be accepted . As time went on . Many such Narrations were Collected and Written down by several writers . Hence . Forthforming Patterns For Future Generations .


However Men , Seeking To Advance Their Own Ideas And Cause Disunity In The Communities . Also Produced Their Own Versions Of Hadiyth . If became necessary to record the Ahaadiyth according to the Reliability Of Both The Narrator And The Transmitter . The Authenticity Of Transmission Because As Entirely Separate Sunject And Even In This , There Were Still Many Disagreement . In All The Hadiyth has ---

Cause Much Sectism In Islaam ; And The Koran Itself Even States , ''' Not To Form Into Sects , ( Koran 6;159 ) The Koran Is The Best Hadiyth ( Koran 4;87 )


If the Qur'aan the true words of Allah why are their diffrent translation . Are these translation for the diffrent school of thought for the 81 or more diffrent Sects of muslims ? I'm talking about these diffrent sect .



1 . Alawiy -ah 2 . Abadia -yah 3 . Shu'aib -iyah 4 . Ishaqiy -ah 5 . Zaidiay - ah 6 . Abbasi -yah 7 . Imamiy 8 . Narisiyah 9 . Tanasu - khiyah 10 . La'iniy -ah 11 . Rari'iya -h 12 . Murtazi -yah 13 . Azraqiy -ah 14 . Riyaziya 15 . Sa'labi -yah 16 . Jazimiy -ah 17 . Khalifiy -ah 18 . Kuziyah 19 . Kanziyah 20 . Mu'taz -ilah 21 . Maimu -niyah 22 . Muhka -miyah 23. Sirajiya -h 24 . Akhnasi -syah 25 . Muztari-yah 26 . Af'aliya -h 27 . Ma'iyah 28 . Tariqiy 29 . Bakhtiy -ah 30 . Mutam -anniyah 31 . Kaslani -yah 32 . Habbibi -yah 33 . Khaufiy -ah 34 . Fikriyah 35 . Hasabiy -ah 36 . Hujjati -yah 37 . Ahadiy -ah 38 . Sanawi -yah 39 . Kaisani -yah 40 . Shaitani -yah 41 . Shariki -yah 42 . Wahmi - yah 43 . Ruwaid -iyah 44 . Nakisiy -ah 45 . Mutaba -rriyah 46 . Qasitiyah 47 . Nazami - yah 48 . Mutawa -llifyah 49 . Mu'att-aliyah 50 . Mutara-bisiyah 51 , Mutara-qibiyah 52 . Waridiy -ah 53 . Harqiyah 54 . Makhlu -qiyah 55. Ibariya -h 56 , Faniyah 57 . Zanadi -qiyah 58 . Lafziyah 59 . Qabriyah 60 . Waqifiy -ah 61 . Tariqiy -ah 62 . Sha'iyah 63 . Rajiyah 64 . Shakkiy-ah 65 . Nahiyah 66 . 'Amaliy -ah 67 . Manqus -iyah 68 . Mustas-niyah 69 . Ash'ari-yyah 70 . Bid'iyah 71 . Mushab-bihiyah 72 . Hashawi -yah 73 . Hashaw -iyah 74 . Ansaar -ullah 75 . Ahmadi-yah 76 . Nation Of Islam 77. Five Percenters 78 . Bahi 79 . Nubian Islamic Hebrews 80 . African Islamic Mission 81 . Moorish Science Temple ( Just to name a few )


Allah speaks against dividing up into Sects . Here take a look ...



Qur'aan 23 ; 52 - 53 ( Yusef Ali )
And verily this brotherhood of your is a ( Single Brotherhood ) And I am your lord and cherisher ; Therefore fear me ( And No Other ) . But people have cut off their affair ( Of Unity ) Between them into Sects ; Each party rejoices in that which is with itself .

The Quraan mentions ONE SUNNAH , Which is Allah's SUNNAH , And I Quote ; Qur'aan 33 ; 62 ; ( Such Was ) The practice ( Approved ) of Allah among those who lived afortime ; No change wilt thou find in the practice ( approved ) of Allah ,

Which all the prophets were to live by . Now you have to admitted that there are many SUNNAHS in practice today resulting in many Jammats . Now my question is which one is Allah's SUNNAH ?

And The Same Goes For Christianity With Their Many Different Denmination , Some Of The Christian Follow The Laws Of Mose , And Some Of Then Follow The Selfappointed Paul Teaching .
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Old 24th August 2008, 14:28
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It is all fine to agree to disagree, yet your post crossed the thin line between informing and preaching.

Such language like:

"They Are Nothing More Than A Modern Day Sect Of Christians And Should Prepare Themselves For The Coming Of The Messiah ."

"Muslims Seem Set On Trying To Defeat The Power Of Christianity And Its Ability To Convert People World Wide."

It wont be tolerated here because it is no longer informing but comes off as preaching.

As for your question, of course Allah's Sunnah is Al Qu'ran and the Prophet stated of all these sects the 'saved' sect are those who follow the Qu'ran and his Sunnah.
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Old 24th August 2008, 14:38
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I Have To Ask You Are You Saying Allah Sent Muhammad To Teach These Different School's Of Though Yes ? If So Can You Give Chapter And Verse Please .
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Old 24th August 2008, 14:45
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No - I clearly said the Prophet said to Follow the Quran and his Sunnah. bas.

however there is no 'pope' like figure or heirarchy in Islam - Islam and the Quran is open to interpretation - which gives way to ikhtilaaf - difference of opinion. Yet these arose out of interpreting text - not that Muhammad's purpose was to create differences of opinion - His was to convey the Message.
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Old 24th August 2008, 15:50
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Muhammad's purpose was to create differences of opinion -- Allah Is Saying Something Different According To The Qur'an Verses Below ..

Qur'aan 23 ; 52 - 53 ( Yusef Ali )
And verily this brotherhood of your is a ( Single Brotherhood ) And I am your lord and cherisher ; Therefore fear me ( And No Other ) . But people have cut off their affair ( Of Unity ) Between them into Sects ; Each party rejoices in that which is with itself .

The Quraan mentions ONE SUNNAH , Which is Allah's SUNNAH , And I Quote ; Qur'aan 33 ; 62 ; ( Such Was ) The practice ( Approved ) of Allah among those who lived afortime ; No change wilt thou find in the practice ( approved ) of Allah ,

How Can A Prophet Of Allah Change The Words Of Allah With His ( Opinion's ) ..
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Last edited by AmenRaEl : 24th August 2008 at 15:52.
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